Hitting the training right to run Comrades with confidence

Hitting the training right to run Comrades with confidence

On today's episode of RUN with CoachParry, we chat to another one of our CoachParry training platform members - Andrew Watt. Markus and Andrew discuss hill training and heart rate training specific to Comrades and all this builds towards running Comrades with confidence. We help Andrew put a goal time in place for his upcoming races as well as his next Comrades.

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Transcription

 

BRAD
Welcome on to this edition of RUN. I'm Brad Brown. And with me today, we've got our running coach, Markus van Niekerk, you would have heard him a few weeks back here on the podcast, we introduced him to you. And we also get to introduce another one of our members of the Coach Parry online training platform and community all the way in London in the UK, Andrew Watt. We will be helping Andrew put a plan in place to achieve his goals. Andrew, welcome.

ANDREW
Thank you, Brad. Very good to be with you.

BRAD
Andrew, that's not a British accent. That's a South African accent that's been transplanted into London. How did you end up there?

ANDREW
I came across about 18 years ago actually just for one year to do a bit of work and travel. And 18 years later, I'm here. I met my wife over here and settled down. I love London, I miss South Africa but there's great opportunities over here.

 

Andrew's running background

 

BRAD
I love that, went for one year, stayed for 18, it kind of sounds like Comrades runners, I'm only going to run one and before you know it you're going for a double green.

ANDREW
I'm halfway there apparently.

BRAD
Going back for number three, you're definitely halfway to green, Andrew. Let's talk a little bit about your running background. I mean you're originally from South Africa, you're from Westville, so you are in Comrades's backyard so to speak. Comrades I'm sure was a big part of your life growing up and a big memory as a youngster.

ANDREW
Huge, I mean, I lived about a kilometre off the route, just at the bottom of Cowie's and just remember going down with a skottel watching for breakfast on the up runs and then down runs going for the afternoon session and watching all day on the TV. Used to run on Cowie's for training. So for me it was something I've always wanted to do. I didn't think I'd get there. But eventually I've managed to get there so yeah, huge part of my life.

BRAD
You've done 2 now. How special was that first one? I know for me it was growing up around Comrades as well, going back and actually being part of it's surreal, isn't it?

ANDREW
Crazy. I mean, I cried at the start when they're singing Shosholoza, cried at halfway and the cried at the finish. It's really emotional time and wearing Westville colours, going through Westville the support is amazing. So it is as good as I hoped it would be, so amazing.

BRAD
As far as your running background, have you always been a runner? Not necessarily the long stuff, but has running been part of what you do all along?

ANDREW
Yeah, totally. I mean a lot of sports at school but hated the long distance running. But then when I left school just enjoyed 5, 10 K's just running a lot but nothing major. It was only when I got to 40, my wife calls it a mid life crisis, but I just wanted to try and see whether I could run a marathon. And so yeah, I upped the distance, managed to do a few of those and then they convinced me that maybe I could do a Comrades. So was only when I got to 40 I started doing the long stuff but always have been a runner. Yes.

BRAD
Would you consider yourself a long distance runner now?

ANDREW
Without doubt, yeah, I've sold out. Sold my soul.

 

Markus's initial thoughts

 

BRAD
We've sucked him in good and proper. I love it. And I'm going to hand you over to Markus, we've got one of our coaches from Coach Parry with us today. Markus, I'm going to put Andrew in your hands. I know you've got a questionnaire that Andrew sent through with a bit of his running background and we're going to try and help Andrew in the build up to Comrades 2019.

MARKUS
Thank you, hundred percent. Andrew, welcome. Thanks for getting your hand up. Just a quick few things, I've got your questionnaire here with me and your current PB's really look good. Well done on your Comrades for last year, the 9:17. And it's really exciting to see that what you've been doing together with what's possible. If we work on the times two and a half based on your current marathon PB the 3:21, it does equate to more or less 9 hour race. So I mean, that was almost bang on. So well done on that. But with regards to your overall preparation and leading up to the race, and what do you do? Firstly, what did you experience? And then what are your expectations moving forward? I know you said here you'd like to go for a Bill Rowan, but moving forward what are your thoughts? Do you have any questions regarding training, etc?

ANDREW
Yeah, I have spoken with Lindsey a couple of times about what could I go for? And I seem to have a problem from my half is 1:24 but then I can't quite equate that into my marathon. My marathon is 3:13. Then trying to bring that into Comrades, trying to extrapolate that. So I'm torn between just carrying on as I and avoiding injury, being risk free, or pushing it harder and maybe seeing what I can actually do based on my half marathons time and maybe pushing it. So I'm caught between the two, which way do I go? So at 46, I'm interested to know whether you may say go for it, you can maybe push it a bit more or actually stick with what you got and stick with a Bill Rowan.

MARKUS
Yeah, so that's an interesting question. So you didn't list your 21 K PB, and I mean 1:24 at someone your age is a really good time, so well done on that. But that equates to sub three hour marathon. So if you guys have three hour marathon that equates to, I mean a possible silver. So I think firstly, you've got the speed over short distances, but there seems to be a lack of speed edurance. So I don't know what programme you're following now but maybe it's a good thing to look at a certain, we've got a whole bunch of time based programmes, maybe consider something like a three hour marathon programme, if it's not going to be too hard on your system. And if you could follow that 12 week programme right up until, let's say you gonna jump on that within the next week or two, take that up to somewhere in January I don't know what the races are like in the UK at that time of the year.

Obviously it's not the best running weather. But maybe try and work on your speed endurance while you have the time and then slowly but surely carry some of that speed over into when you start building on your endurance leading up to Comrades. Then maybe doing a Bill Rowan programme would come way easier than you might think. If you manage to stay injury free and still get close to that three hour mark on the marathon. Look it's not going to be an overnight thing. But luckily 12 weeks gives you sufficient time in order to build up for that specific run. The marathon that you did, the 3:21 when about was that?

ANDREW
Two weeks ago.

MARKUS
Okay, and would you say you were absolutely done afterwards or was it just a good positive run?

ANDREW
It was a good positive run, I didn't even split. So I finished very fast. And so yeah, very happy with it. It was undulating, I wouldn't say it is hilly, but there were some, everything seemed to click in and I really finished strong.

MARKUS
Okay. A sub 40 minute 10k is also very respectable. Once again if I take your 21 k time it works back to a 37, 41 10k split. So when last did you do the 39:54 the 10k PB that you listed?

ANDREW
That was two months ago. I got a PB of about 38 minutes a couple of years ago. The latest one was about two months ago.

MARKUS
Okay, okay, so you've got pretty good running form at the moment.

ANDREW
I'm feeling good, yes. I'm over all my Achilles injuries and everything like that. So I feel like I've moved on to the next stage and ready for hopefully whatever comes along.

MARKUS
Okay, perfect. And with your lead up every year to Comrades, would you say there are certain patterns that pops up every year or certain issues or injuries in that case that usually arises and interferes with your preparation?

ANDREW
The first year 2017 I had a perfect run up. Nothing happened. I did about 1600 kilometres from January to, to May or to the Comrades, no injuries, couldn't have had a better one. Got a 8:54 for that so Bill Rowann there. Unfortunately, this year, for the 2018 run, in about February I had an Achilles injury, tendonopathy, and it might just have been over training and I only ended up doing about 1100 kilometres but surprised myself with a 9:17.

So I've had two very different ones. I realize I probably tried to overdo things this year. So yeah, I guess in one way I sometimes try to over train, I want to train all the time. And it's just a case of maybe taking some rests and that kind of thing, but I'm not sure that answers because they've been to such different preparations.

MARKUS
Just for interest's sake, did you follow a certain programme leading up to this year's event? Or did you go on feel?

ANDREW
No, totally. Lindsey's coaches, I did the Bill Rowan programme, for my first Comrades and the second Comrades.

MARKUS
Okay. And did you stick to all the prescribed paces and all those, you know, specifics in the programme?

ANDREW
Yeah, I did. I did have Achilles injury. So I had to cut back a bit. But otherwise totally, pacing. I've sold into this long and slow rather than too fast. So I was sticking to it. Yeah.

 

Running on pace or heart rate?

 

MARKUS
Okay. And when you gauge intensity, do you always go on pace, heart rate, what do you use as your reference?

ANDREW
Pace. Yeah, I do have a heart rate monitor. And so I do also try to stick my certain thresholds. But I do just try to slow it down. Just take it nice and easy kind of thing. So mainly pace.

MARKUS
Okay. Okay, perfect. So moving forward. Obviously, you listed your goals with regards to Comrades, but do you have any questions or anything that you aren't sure about in your preparation? Like I said, I think it'd be a good idea if you jump on maybe the sub3 marathon. By the sounds of it, you are in good enough shape to definitely try and stick to that programme. Obviously, one doesn't want to bring up old injuries but you'll never know if you don't go there. So moving up to maybe to January and then from January to Comrades, what are your main challenges and questions?

 

Setting realistic goals

 

ANDREW
Yeah, well great to know whether you feel I could go for it or not and it sounds like you think I could. I have changed my running style a bit because of the Achilles, I'm using more [12:30] where before I used to use my calves all the time. So I've changed that with the help of a physio and a bit of training, and it's working nicely. So I'm keen to see where that takes me. So yes, I'd love to, if I could, run close to three, maybe sub 3:10 marathon if that is good. So that would be good.

And just to see how far I could push myself in terms of Bill Rowan for Comrades. I am scared. Yeah, if you push it the risk of injury. And I'm just wondering, maybe this year, I just consolidate after this achilles from the beginning of this earlier this year, and maybe just keep it simple. And then maybe in the following year, once I'm confident and I could maybe push and follow maybe going for the quicker time. So I'm torn between the two. And it'd be interesting from your point of view if there is anything I could do strength wise or anything that could convince me that I should actually go for it now and see and push the limits and see what I can do. Yeah, I suppose I've got a bit of mental scarring from my injury I think.

MARKUS
Yeah, so my personal experience with regards to Comrades is that it's definitely something, obviously it's achievable, but I'm the same with you, I've got that, I don't know if it's fear or respect, but it's one of the two with regards to the race. So everything, my preparation for the last few races, the two Comrades that I've also done the last few years, the preparation has gone really well. But obviously there comes a point in that race, where you feel that everything falls apart. I mean, your PB wasn't very far off my PB. I don't know how I managed to do it but I ran slightly faster than you over the race. But the fact is that, my personal opinion is the more confident you are in your preparation, more confident you can be going into the event. And what would be great is, look, let's say for argument's sake, you get to a 3:10 marathon before Comrades next year, run a Bill Rowan. I think it's a very realistic goal.

And together with the pacing charts that we usually hand out before the race, it's so pin pointed, and it's really accurate, in terms of what you need to do, how far into the race, I mean, I don't know, which pacing chart you usually work with, but some we do supply, they literally almost break it down per kilometre. So sometimes you know this, well, some people find it beneficial, some find it has a bit too much information. But to me, you sound like the perfect candidate to go for that Bill Rowan, especially based on your marathon times, it's really really good with regards to pushing your speed from now until January. And once again, stay within what your body's capable of. And once you feel the Achilles clearing up a bit, stay away from the from the hill work, you know, be very cautious of certain speed sessions. But also in your preparation to next year being the up run, I think that's going to be your biggest challenge is getting the necessary hill repeat sessions done without the achilles flaring up again.

 

How to tackle hill sessions

 

ANDREW
I think one thing I realized that when I was doing hill sessions earlier this year, I was doing on steep hills 10% kind of stuff. And I've been reading recently, Lindsey saying no, stay away from those things, 3-4%, 5%. And I realised that could have caused a problem. So I am going to be careful about that. I feel the achilles is over now. I haven't had any pain since before the Comrades and I've been working on things. So I feel the first time now I'm feeling confident that it's over.

But I do have to be careful and I am aware of it. But yeah, if I'm a little bit more wise and careful I'll be okay. One thing I'm good at, if someone says follow this programme, I do follow it. I trust Lindsey's programmes, I trust his advice for the Comrades, take it slow, then don't go too fast. So I'm quite good at that. I have no confidence in my own ability. I'd rather concentrate on somebody who knows what they're talking about. So we'll listen to that. And, yeah, I guess it's just a case of seeing what the body says really.

MARKUS
You know, for sure. Just a question from my side, the off road marathon that you're aiming for in March next year. What is that about?

ANDREW
Okay, so it's just, I did it two years ago for prep for Comrades. It's a very hilly race along the Sussex coast. And I chose it because it's very hilly, and I wanted to get some hill training in for Comrades. So I think I did a 4:09 marathon last time for it. So I'd go slowly but I used it as a hill training, because it is a lot of ups and downs. So it's off road but it's trails, it's not like hectic scrambling or anything, it's more trails. And so yeah, that's basically a very hilly that I want to use or preparation for Comrades but nice and easy.

MARKUS
Okay, well, perfect. It really sounds like a cool race to do. It's quite interesting. When I initially started training, or, you know, when I started with Lindsey, as an athlete, I also thought when it says hill session, look for the one that looks like a staircase to heaven, and then just ramp it up. Immediately I picked up issues, whether it was in my feet or my achilles, it's just not good. So like you said it yourself, Lindsey's also stated many times in the forum before, 4-5% is your go to number. It's also about the pace that you do it at. So ideally, you want to do it at about 10 to 15 seconds slower than your 5k race pace per kilometre, or at your 10 k race pace, that would be the ideal thing and take the easy jog down. Give your body sufficient time to recover, keep an eye on your heart rate. And then when you get to the bottom, just do it again.

 

Incorporating other types of training into your programme

 

ANDREW
I also do outdoor circuit training. So high impact, higher intensity impact training. I use that as my strength training sometimes and that's a lot of core, a lot of sprints, just a very good for all over body and that kind of thing. And now I always wonder is that better than hills or is hills better than that? That's for an hour a week. I'm just wondering if you think that'd be a good substitute or not?

MARKUS
Just if you can elaborate more on that I'd appreciate it. Sorry. Is it quite a lot of weight training as well for your body, or what is it?

ANDREW
So it's all core, press ups, sit ups, squats, lunges, sprints, shuttle sprints and so sometimes boxing. So it's a whole mixture of sometimes it's more cardio, so more running, sometimes it's more core work. No weights involved or anything like that.

MARKUS
Yeah, so it does sound like a good workout. It sounds like a good overall addition to fitness, but I'd still definitely get to those hill sessions. You know, psychologically as well but physically you're definitely going to benefit more from doing hill specific sessions or hill repeat sessions, as opposed to that running. Yes, it's good, the sprint is good for your explosive power and stuff like that. But overall, you want that stimulation for specific hill training.

ANDREW
Yeah, and how many sessions like how many strength sessions would you suggest a week? Is it one? Or if I fit in 2, so hills and maybe the circuit training or 2 lots of hills? How would you split it up for the week?

MARKUS
It's a bit of a double edged sord for this one. Firstly, between now and January, I'd say see how, if you're keen on going for that PB, including your 42 K PB, just keep an eye on how your body reacts to a speed session or a hill session and one of those high intensity impact training sessions. To me, obviously, the intensity running session is priority seeing that you've got certain goals set out with regards to Comrades and then improving PBs. But for me, I'd say hill training also does have its place in preparation.

So obviously next year, you'll see on our time based programmes that there will be only one hill session in a week, or that be sufficient. I don't think your legs really need to have way more than that. But it doesn't mean you need to stop the other because it sounds like a good all round general strength workout session, which is also good, you can never go wrong with some core and some squats, all those do add to your overall fitness and performance on race day.

ANDREW
So I do five days a week. So I guess I don't want to substitute a run or a strength. Do you add in another session, a sixth day? Or do you sort of almost cut one out, stick to four days of running and one day of hill training?

MARKUS
Is it currently four days of running and one of the intensity sessions?

ANDREW
Yeah.

MARKUS
Look, my personal suggestion would be is for now, I think it's fine. For now the five day week is fine. Once you get to a place where you feel that you can benefit from a 5th session, or from a fourth running session, definitely go there. And my two years of preparation for the race is I usually run about on average, five days a week. By adding another run session, you can only benefit from it as opposed to you know, dropping the HIT sessions or you know, the specific speed training session, or speed running session. But I'd say especially in your preparation for Comrades next year, if your body is okay with it, if your body copes with adding another session in the week, I'd say there's no issue there.

ANDREW
Okay, as long as that sounds, nice, easy pace, and nothing too crazy.

MARKUS
For sure, your aerobic training, especially for Comrades preparation is one of the biggest contributing factors that will help you on race day. Easy running is easy, one of the most underestimated training sessions that people can do.

ANDREW
I've been converted. For my marathon a few weeks ago, I was running at 5:10-5:20 a kilometre. And then on the race day it was 4:46. So I'm so converted about this aerobic training. I think Lindsey's got it spot on there, and it just takes the pressure off. But for some reason it gets you get you going for the faster things. So at one point a few years ago I was like, no this doesn't work for me, but definitely something that I think is an amazing, amazing way of doing it. So yeah, definitely converted.

MARKUS
Yeah, for sure. I mean, just to add you to your statement there, in my first preparation for Comrades, I also did Ironman and I took some time off. And I think I started in October or November 2016. I went 100% on heart rate, and I'd run at about 5:25 per kilometre pace, sometimes, you know, go up to 141, 151 beats. So generally I was working on the math method 180 minus my age and it was interesting to see because that was October, November at an average pace of 5:25.

And I'll never forget the last run Lindsey and I did before the race, and we ran really comfortable, my heart rate was at 142 beats per minute and I ran comfortably at 4:40 per kilometre. And I'll tell you what, I did very, very, very little speed sessions, I only focused on heart rate running. So it just goes to show you if you consistently train at the right intensity on an aerobic basis, I can guarantee you there's so many benefits there.

ANDREW
Totally, and it just takes the risk out of injuries and that kind of stuff as well. But I think what I'm going to just see how the body feels and push myself as much as I can, but not too much. And if I have to just sort of give up those ideas or PBs and that, that's fine, most important thing is a better run and be able to carry on running for years to go kind of thing. So it's a goal of mine to do PBs and to Bill Rowan, and that kind of stuff. But I also want to listen to the body. So I appreciate your advice in that regards. And it's a case of just seeing and listening to the body and not being silly. I'm not a young spring chicken anymore. So I have to maybe see that those days over. And maybe listen to the body more.

MARKUS
Yeah, look, Andrew just in summary, if your training is right, I can guarantee you this, if you run at the right intensities when you need to do easy runs and you follow a specific pacing on let's say for argument's sake, you do play around a with a sub three hour marathon plan, your PB on a marathon is three minutes off mine, but strange enough your 21K PB is three minutes faster than mine. Okay, and I managed to do 8:47 this year at Comrades with 800 kilometres less on my legs than last year. Okay.

So if you make sure that you do, you know, sufficient easy runs, but you also stick to the pacing on once again, let's use the sub three hour marathon programme, if you work hard in your quality sessions, but you recover well and also do your easy runs easy enough for your body to know that it's an easy session, you know, you recover fast and all those good things. I can guarantee you, the Bill Rowan is more than realistic, well it's a more than realistic target for yourself.

ANDREW
That's amazing. Thanks, that really gives me confidence.

 

Andrew's thoughts on the Coach Parry Training Platform

 

BRAD
Andrew, it sounds like you are well on track mate. Things are working out quite nicely. You're a very active member of the Coast Parry online community as well. We love having you in the forums. Just in summary, your experience of what we're doing over at Coach Parry and that training platform?

ANDREW
:Loving it, I love the data. So I'm loving the schedule and seeing the reds become greens and all that kind of stuff. And the forums are lovely. I enjoy reading other people's comments so I'm loving the new one. And this one on one kind of opportunity is really amazing. So thank you very much.

BRAD
Yeah we've made some big changes over the last few years and this is something that we've been thinking about for a while, it's taken a hell of a lot of work but yeah, we're pretty excited and hearing feedback from guys like you who are actually using it in the trenches, obviously fires us up even more to keep going and make even more improvements.

ANDREW
Yeah, I feel privileged to be part of it from the beginning. So it's really great. So keep up the good work.

BRAD
Andrew, if someone's sitting on the fence, what would you say to somebody who's sitting on the fence thinking about maybe potentially joining?

ANDREW
I think the main thing is the programmes and as I was saying, I just am so converted by Lindsey's methodology for the aerobics and consistency and so just joining that and then just using the platform to monitor that. I think it's fantastic, such a visual way of seeing things and for me, it makes such a difference visually seeing how I'm going. So I would say definitely go for it. And all the forums and that. I would say if you want to take your running forward and get those PBs, definitely go for it.

BRAD
Cool. Well Andrew, thank you very much for that, we really do appreciate it and thank you for your time today. Best of luck in the build up and I know you coming out to South Africa the end of the year for a bit of a holiday with a family, some sunshine away from the doom and gloom and greyness of London in December. Yeah hopefully we can touch base while you're here and possibly get a few runs in.

ANDREW
Fantastic, Brad, really appreciate it.

 

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